[HEA]
    _____________________   ___                                   _
    |___   ______________| |   |                                 | |
        |  | _             |   |                                 | |
        |  || |            |   |                                 | |
        |  || |            |   |                                 | |
        |  || |            |   |   ____ _   _ _   _   ______     | |
        |  || |            |   |  / __ \ | | / \_/ \  | ___ \    | |
        |  || |__   ____   |   | / /  \  | |  /\ /\ \ | |  \ \   | |
        |  ||  _ \ |  _ \  |   | \ \__/  | | | |_|| | | |__/ /   | |
        |  || | | || |_||  |   |  \___/|_| |_|    |_| | ____/    |_|
        |  || | | || |__   |   |____________________  | |         _
        |__||_| |_|\____/  |________________________| | |        |_|
                                                      | |
         Lighting Your Apple II Path On Delphi        | |
                                                      |_|

-----------------------------------


                       >>> WELCOME TO THE LAMP! <<<
                       ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


             AND THE BEST OF THE A2 AND A2PRO MESSAGE BOARDS
           "Teaching the Apple II user how to fish since 1998"

 ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
 The Lamp!            An Onipa'a Software Production        Vol. 3, No. 7
 ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
 Publisher................................Ryan M. Suenaga, M.S.W., L.S.W.
 Editor.....................................................Lyle Syverson
 Internet Email, Publisher.........................thelamp@sheppyware.net
 Internet Mail, Editor.................................lyle837@delphi.com
 ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

                            TABLE OF CONTENTS
                            ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                              July 15, 2000

HIGH ABOVE THE ROCK RIVER
     Fireworks--------------------------------------------------------[OPN]

KFest 2000 (Y][K Fest)
     KFest Pep Rally!-------------------------------------------------[KPR]
     Y][K Fest Registration Info--------------------------------------[GVO]

A2 DISTILLATIONS
     KFest Pep Rally!-------------------------------------------------[KPR]
     Ancestorworks Updated to v2 and Released as Freeware-------------[ANW]
     Silvern Castle v5.0 About to be Released-------------------------[SCA]
     Help with Silvern Castle-----------------------------------------[SCH]
     Juiced.GS 'Friends for Life' CD_ROM Now Shipping-----------------[FFL]
     The Complete Guide to SheppyWare Updated-------------------------[CGS]
     Help With HTML---------------------------------------------------[HWH]
     Availability and Cost of Internet Services-----------------------[ACI]

A2P DISTILLATIONS
     Editor's Note----------------------------------------------------[ENT]

EXTRA INNINGS
     About The Lamp! ------------------------------------------------ [INN]

                                [*] [*] [*]

READING THE LAMP!   The index system used by The Lamp! is designed to make
"""""""""""""""""   your reading easier.  To use this system, load this
issue into any word processor or text editor.  In the index you will find
something like:

EXTRA INNINGS
     About The Lamp! ------------------------------------------------ [INN]

To read this article, simply use your search or find command to locate
[INN].  There is a similar tag at the end of each article: [EOA].

[OPN]-------------------------------
         HIGH ABOVE THE ROCK RIVER |
------------------------------------
From The Editor
"""""""""""""""
by Lyle Syverson <lyle@FoxValley.net>

                                 Fireworks
                                 ~~~~~~~~~
     That patio High Above The Rock River was the ideal place to watch the
local fireworks recently.  While watching, I couldn't help but think of the
similarity of the occasion to KFest...  The celebration of a tried and true
entity, and surprises to come.  See you at KFest!

                                [*] [*] [*]

     In the January issue I told you about Tom, who bought his first
computer for his 85th birthday... and how he almost gave up using it.

     He was telling joke after joke at the last Coffee Hour held here High
Above The Rock River.  Someone asked him where he got all his jokes.  Tony
said, "I get them from the Internet!"  I think he will be keeping his
computer.  :)
[EOA]


ASCII ART BEGINS
_________  _                     _                                      _
|__   __| | |                   | |                                    | |
   | |    | |                   | |                                    | |
   | |    | |___     ____       | |       _____   __ ___ _   _ _____   | |
   | |    | ___ \   / __ \      | |      /____ \  | v   v | | v ___ \  | |
   | |    | |  | | | /__\ \     | |       ____| | | /\ /\ | |  /   \ \ | |
   | |    | |  | | | _____|     | |      / ___  | | || || | | |    | | |_|
   | |    | |  | | | |_____     | |____  | |__| | | || || | |  \___/ /  _
   |_|    |_|  |_| \______|     |______| \____^_| |_||_||_| | |\____/  |_|
                                                            | |
                                                            | |
                                                            |_|

ASCII ART ENDS


[EOA]

DISTILLATIONS from Delphi A2
""""""""""""""""""""""""""""
by Lyle Syverson <lyle@foxvalley.net>

[KPR]
KFest PEP RALLY!
""""""""""""""""
Y][Kfest is just about 1 month away!

There are still a few spaces in the dorm if you still want to register.

You can register anytime, even at the door, but we have a limited number of
spaces available in the dorm.

And for everyone that has ever attended a KFest, you already know that the
"after hours" sessions in the dorm is one of the best parts of KFest.

See you there,

The Big Cheese
(aka Cindy)

(CINDYADAMS, 31666, GO COM A2)

>>>>>
"""""
Cindy,

Well, I faxed in a registration form. I guess that means I am committed to
go.  Unless I oversleep of course.  I will try to remember to set my alarm.

Dain Neater

(STILLHAVEIT, 31686, GO COM A2)

>>>>>
"""""
> Well, I faxed in a registration form.

Yeah!! That's another newbie for this year!

I'm still hoping that some other newbies from nearby might decide to show
up at the last minute!

Cindy

(CINDYADAMS, 31687, GO COM A2)

>>>>>
"""""
Come on, folks - the more the merrier! ;)

I can tell you this: getting to meet many of the friends that I'd made on
Genie and Delphi was one of the best experiences of my life! I only wish
that I'd gotten a chance to start going to KFest years before I finally did
so.

Stan Marks

(STANMARKS, 31699, GO COM A2)

>>>>>
"""""
I'm gearing up for KFest - I've hit a number of parts depots and managed to
liberate another dozen GS machines - at least half of which are ROM3.

CPUs are still pretty easy to find, but monitors, 3.5 drives, keyboards and
some cables are getting harder to find. As they are smaller, I imagine
they're going into the dumpster. =(

This may be the last time I can offer to open the garage up - I may end up
moving to Minneapolis sometime this year, and of course, the GS gear would
be too much to move. I hate the idea of any of it going to waste - so if at
all possible, poll your friends, fellow user group members, etc... take as
much as you think you can use.

There will also be a number of manuals and misc. 8 bit gear available too.
C'mon down...

Sean

(SFAHEY, 31844, GO COM A2)

>>>>>
"""""
If you ever needed a reason to attend KFest, the field trip to Sean's ought
to be the one!

The Big Cheese
(aka Cindy)

(CINDYADAMS, 31847, GO COM A2)
[EOA]


[ANW]
ANCESTORWORKS UPDATED TO v2 AND RELEASED AS FREEWARE
""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""
AncestorWorks ver 2 was completed a couple of months ago and is being
released as Freeware. AncestorWorks is a complete genealogy program that
works from within AppleWorks 5.1. It is capable of handling more than 1000
relatives, generates customizable family and individual reports as well as
graphical trees, and imports and exports files in the GEDCOM standard.

It can be downloaded from my web page at
{<http://www.geocities.com/budmannet/>
http://www.geocities.com/budmannet/.}

I request that it not be uploaded to any other web site. However, links to
this web page are encouraged.

Dr. Bud Simrin

(BUDMAN10, 31868, GO COM A2)
[EOA]


[SCA]
SILVERN CASTLE V5.0 ABOUT TO BE RELEASED
""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""
Silvern Castle V5.0!

I'm happy to announce the release of yet another new scenario: "Time
Master":

This third scenario installment concludes the SC trilogy. Starting where
the 2nd scenario left off with the identity and defeat of the ancient
enemy, your hardy band must now undertake the perilous journey to close the
pentagram gateways to prevent further incursions from the realm of the
enemy...

As with the second scenario "Shades of the Past", only registered users can
attempt this expert-level scenario!

(ROFFERSD, 31688, GO COM A2)

>>>>>
"""""
Silvern Castle V5.0

In addition to the new third additional scenario "Time Master" SCv5.0
includes the following new features:

New extra menu option: Preferences!
Allows you to toggle the encumbrance feature on/off and to restrict silver
and copper coins in r of only gold pieces.

Also: clerics can now I)d items like druids; the back-row characters have
lower chance to be hit by melee attacks; NPC's may exchange info if they
surrender; spellbooks/holy symbols can be dropped; and some further monster
fine-tuning.

(ROFFERSD, 31689, GO COM A2)
[EOA]


[SCH]
HELP WITH SILVERN CASTLE
""""""""""""""""""""""""
>I have not really tried it since version 2.0.

Since so few A2 users have paid for this game, continuing user comments
-good or bad- from dedicated players like you is all the incentive I have
left to continue further development on Silvern Castle...

BTW, it's not necessary to update to each release, i.e. you can update
forward to any later release.

Jeff Fink

(ROFFERSD, 31690, GO COM A2)

>>>>>
"""""
Hi Jeff!

Is there a disk image version of this game available? If there is, I'll
happily give you $15 right now. :o)

Alas, my GS died, so other versions won't work for me. A pity, too, because
it sounds like just the kind of game I'd love to waste months on... like I
did with Dragon Wars. :o)

Thanks!

Goldfische

(GOLDFISCHE, 31691, GO COM A2)

>>>>>
"""""
In message 'Silvern Castle V4.1 (Re: Msg 31690)' GOLDFISCHE said:

> Is there a disk image version of this game available? If there is, I'll
> happily give you $15 right now. :o)

I don't think there any disk images available on line, but Silvern Castle
v4.1 (and all previous versions) will be available on the Juiced.GS
'Friends for Life' CD-ROM, and there is a disk image on the CD that
contains the entire Juiced.GS Collection, including Silvern Castle. :-)
The disk image is usable with Bernie or Sweet16.

The 'Friends for Life' CD-ROM is available from Juiced.GS for $30, which
includes shipping anywhere in the world. Watch this forum closely for
important news concerning this product. An announcement is forthcoming in
the next few hours. :-)

 Max Jones
 Juiced.GS
 http://www.wbwip.com/juiced.gs

(JUICEDGS, 31693, GO COM A2)

<<<<<
"""""
>Is there a disk version of this game available?

Hi Goldfische!
Yes, if you need a disk image I can certainly help you!

Silvern Castle can be ordered directly at the following address:

Jeff Fink
432 Eureka St, Apt 210
Ripon, WI 54971

I can only accommodate 3.5" disk requests. Enclose $15 + $3 shipping if you
want to register at the same time; otherwise a demo disk is available for
$5.

Jeff Fink

(ROFFERSD, 31924, GO COM A2)

>>>>>
"""""
Well, I got past the first two doors in the moat with the new key, now I am
faced with a password. I've never seen a password or any hints. Does anyone
know where the hints are about this password? Please help. Send email to
bbaker@hal-pc.org if you like.

Bruce

(BRB, 31923, GO COM A2)

>>>>>
"""""
Hi Bruce! I'm glad you're still enjoying Silvern Castle!

Riddles and codewords are indeed a new feature.

When I released V3.0 I changed the original scenario slightly to include
the moat level as necessary to win because I didn't think I would be able
to add additional scenarios. Fortunately, I was wrong and new scenarios are
included with V4.0 and V5.0! Because I thought V3.0 would be my last update
(I'm working on V5.1!) I made the expanded scenario extra difficult.

To find the password you are looking for, read carefully the info that the
head guru of the Infinitum says when he gives you the new key. Remember you
are in a moat-did you notice that torches and lanterns don't work
underwater (at least since V3.0)? And, perhaps now water interferes with
other effects (hint: especially with light spells).

Hope this helps!

Jeff Fink

(ROFFERSD, 31926, GO COM A2)
[EOA]


[FFL]
Juiced.GS 'FRIENDS FOR LIFE' CD_ROM NOW SHIPPING
""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""
ANNOUNCING ...

The Juiced.GS 'Friends for Life' CD-ROM is now shipping!!
---------------------------------------------------------

The first batch of CDs went into the mail Monday morning. The remaining
orders will be packaged and mailed on Tuesday morning.

Thanks to all for your patience during the product development period. It
took longer to complete this project than I had hoped, but it's done and
will soon be in the hands of faithful Juiced.GS customers who continue to
believe in what we do and support us in our endeavor to keep the Apple II
spirit alive.

A special thanks to Ryan Suenaga, who mastered and burned the CDs from the
half-dozen Zip disks I mailed him. His hard work and dedication to the
project made the finished product better than it otherwise would have been.
Ryan adds quality to every product he touches.

See the next message for details about the CD and ordering information.

 Max Jones
 Juiced.GS
 http://www.wbwip.com/juiced.gs

(JUICEDGS, 31701, GO COM A2)

>>>>>
"""""
Juiced.GS presents ...

The 'Friends for Life' CD-ROM
-----------------------------

A compilation of the best freeware, shareware and public domain programs
and files for the Apple IIGS released to the public since 1995 ...

The CD-ROM is NOW SHIPPING!!
----------------------------

Since 1995, Juiced.GS has been collecting Apple IIGS programs and files and
releasing them as part of the Juiced.GS Collection. Each quarter since the
newsletter began publishing in early 1996, Juiced.GS has compiled and made
available for sale two-disk sets of Apple IIGS materials gleaned on line
and from other sources. We've even compiled some special disk offerings,
including two-disk sets of animation and music files.

In addition to our compilations, we have made available some specialty
titles of Apple IIGS software, some of which were formerly commercial
products reclassified by their authors and made available for public
access.

Now, the entire Juiced.GS Collection is available on one CD-ROM.

On top of this fabulous compilation of IIGS material, 1996-1999 back issues
of Juiced.GS have been placed on the CD in graphic format for high-quality
viewing and printing from Macs or PCs. That's right, the entire stock of
back issues of the Apple II world's premier IIGS-specific newsletter is
archived on this CD just as it appeared in the printed magazine!

Among the great specialty titles you'll find are Animasia 3-D, ProSel,
Twilight II 2.0, Wolfenstein 3D IIGS, BeagleWrite and BeagleWrite GS,
BeagleDraw, Marinetti 2.0.1, and many more.

Those who use IIGS emulators for the Mac or PC, or those who would like to
explore the world of emulation, will find the 'Friends for Life' CD
especially friendly. The CD is equipped with the most recent versions of
Bernie ][ The Rescue and Sweet16. Several already-prepared disk images of
many of the CDs main features are included as well, which will make getting
going with emulation easier than ever.

The 'Friends for Life' CD-ROM is formatted for HFS and usable from any
Macintosh or PC running BeOS. A PC running the Windows operating system
must be equipped with the proper software for reading HFS disks in order to
handle the CD.

The CD-ROM is decorated with a custom label and ships with a jewel case.

Ordering Information
--------------------

The Juiced.GS 'Friends for Life' CD-ROM is $30, which includes shipping to
anywhere in the world. To order, send a check or money order in U.S. funds
to:

 Max Jones
 Juiced.GS
 2217 Lakeview Drive
 Sullivan, IN 47882

Coming Soon -- credit card purchasing!
--------------------------------------

Juiced.GS is in the process of setting up an Internet site through Kagi.com
that will allow orders to be placed conveniently and securely by credit
card. That site should be ready to accept orders in a few days.  Stay tuned
for updated information on this exciting development!

Apple II Forever!!

 Max Jones
 Juiced.GS
 http://www.wbwip.com/juiced.gs


(JUICEDGS, 31702, GO COM A2)

>>>>>
"""""
Announcing .....

The Juiced.GS 'Friends for Life' CD-ROM is now available for credit-card
purchases from our new Kagi on line order processing site.

Also available on the new site are subscriptions for 2000 and the
back-issue package covering all issues from 1996 through 1999.

To reach the Juiced.GS on line ordering site, go to:

http://order.kagi.com/?2ZM

The Juiced.GS Web site will also be updated soon to provide a link to this
Kagi site, but it may be a few days before remodeling is complete. Don't
let that discourage you from making a trip to the ordering site directly
through the above URL.

If you have any questions about Juiced.GS products or the on line ordering
process, send e-mail to me at juicedgs@delphi.com or juicedgs@kagi.com.

 Max Jones
 Juiced.GS
 http://www.wbwip.com/juiced.gs

(JUICEDGS, 31754, GO COM A2)

>>>>>
"""""
My 'Friends for Life' CD arrived this afternoon in my mailbox. I have
looked through the CD and WOW! Lots of great stuff. Thanks Max. Thanks
Ryan. What a great buy!

Barry Rees

(BARRY_REES, 31763, GO COM A2)

>>>>>
"""""
Hi Max,

Got my issue of "Friends for Life" CD and I think it is GREAT.

Mack

(MACKDUNCAN, 31764, GO COM A2)

>>>>>
"""""
I think that, to date, Juiced.GS FFL is the most exciting Apple II project
I've worked on.

 Ryan M. Suenaga, M.S.W., L.S.W. -- rsuenaga@apple2.org
 Publisher, _The Lamp!_, published monthly on Delphi
 Posted by PTMM v2.5 - The integrated information solution

(RSUENAGA, 31765, GO COM A2)

>>>>>
"""""
You know, as I collected and compiled all this stuff over the past five
years, I sometimes lose sight of the fact that there is so much significant
stuff on this CD-ROM, and that it is so darned complete. When I actually
sit back and look it over now, I'm pretty amazed with it as well.

 Max Jones
 Juiced.GS
 http://www.wbwip.com/juiced.gs

P.S. The 'Friends for Life' CD is available for credit card purchases on
line at the new Juiced.GS order processing Web site. Check us out at:

http://order.kagi.com/?2ZM

(JUICEDGS, 31775, GO COM A2)

>>>>>
"""""
Max, the CD will be available at Kfest, I hope. :)

Later............Howard

(HKATZ, 31783, GO COM A2)

>>>>>
"""""
Oh yeah! Should be plenty of CDs... one for everyone who wants one. :-)

 Max Jones
 Juiced.GS
 http://www.wbwip.com/juiced.gs

(JUICEDGS, 31788, GO COM A2)
[EOA]


[CGS]
THE COMPLETE GUIDE TO SHEPPYWARE UPDATED
""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""
The year 2000 KansasFest event, held this summer July 25 through July 30,
is sounding like it will be a fantastic event. A number of Apple II
developers are threatening to release new products. To commemorate the
large, round-numbered year of doom (2000), I'll be selling a new, updated
edition of The Complete Guide to SheppyWare, my complete reference book to
every piece of software I've released to the general public.

Out of print since 1996, this update is a must-have, including several
products released since that time, including gsAIM, Shifty List 2.0,
Wolfenstein 3D, WebWorks GS, ImageMaker, and more. Bundled with the book is
the new Totally SheppyWare CD, a complete collection of SheppyWare, ready
to be used on an Apple

II with a CD-ROM drive, or a Mac OS or BeOS system using emulation.

The package will sell for $50 and will not be available until July 28;
however, you can preorder a copy online at <http://order.kagi.com/?QGC>.
Registration fees for all software included on the CD-ROM are included in
the $50 price.

Eric (Sheppy) Shepherd
sheppy@sheppyware.net
http://www.sheppyware.net

(SHEPPY, 31971, GO COM A2)
[EOA]


[HWH]
HELP WITH HTML
""""""""""""""
Hi,

I have an HTML style question. I haven't done much HTML, but I want to
revamp my web site this summer, and that means converting 150 text files to
HTML. All of those files are reviews of different video games, and each
start with a header similar to this one:

Title : PERFECT DARK
Platform : Nintendo 64
Publisher : Nintendo
ESRB Rating: Mature
Rating : 9.8
Review by : Ken Gagne

Now, how can I make that look best in HTML? I considered having the colons
continue to line up, and a friend told me there's one of two ways to do
that: use <PRE> tags, which we both agree are ugly; or use tables, which I
want to avoid, since they don't translate well to text-based browsers.

Now, regardless of whether or not the colons line up, I mean, what looks
good?  Just header <Hx> tags? <EM>? <STRONG>? What do you think?

Thanks,

-Ken

(KEN_GAGNE, 31782, GO COM A2)

>>>>>
"""""
Tables work fine in text based browsers as long as you do it like this:

<table>
<tr>
<td> row 1 column 1 </td>
<td> row 1 column 2 </td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td> row 2 column 1 </td>
<td> row 2 column 2 </td>
</tr>
<!-- etc... -->
</table>

This kind of table structure works for Lynx and SIS and comes out very
nicely for Netscape users as well (well, it will slow down Netscape's page
generation since it has to calculate the table size after the whole page
comes in, but enough people have fast enough PCs/Macs where this isn't a
issue). You'll probably also want to limit the size of the table to a few
hundred pixels so those of us who use Netscape in 1280x1024 mode won't have
really stretched out tables with a lot of empty space in them.

Geoff

(SISGEOFF, 31796, GO COM A2)

<<<<<
"""""
Geoff,

Thanks for the suggestion. The table looked fine in SIS and iCab, but in
Lynx was not as neat:

   Title : Alundra
   Platform : Sony PlayStation
   Publisher : Working Designs
   Rating : 7.7
   Review by : Ken Gagne

Sorry, but I'm not very good with tables. Is there an attribute that can be
applied to fix this?

-Ken

(KEN_GAGNE, 31801, GO COM A2)

>>>>>
"""""
> The table looked fine in SIS and iCab, but in Lynx was not as neat:

Tell Lynx users to upgrade to SIS :)

You will have to use style changes to accent the different lines. The
simplest change would be to bold face the text in front of the colon. This
is a very common method to distinguish a header. Color can also be made to
work, but is harder to make look right.

Geoff

(SISGEOFF, 31808, GO COM A2)
[EOA]


[ACI]
AVAILABILITY AND COST OF INTERNET SERVICE
"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""
Editor's note:  Sometimes a message thread drifts off topic into an
interesting discussion...

>>>>> <<<<<
"""""""""""
Marinetti shmarinetti...

My sympathies to Sheppy, debugging TCP/IP code on the Apple IIgs is not a
pleasant experience, especially when both time critical and interrupting
code is involved (Marinetti has both).

Firstly, I appreciate that Marinetti still has a few bugs to iron out,
however I do not believe that they are as "full on" as Sheppy states. :-)
No offense, but like I said, I can understand his reaction, I really can.

Marinetti has been out for, how long now, four years I think, and in all
that time I've had two bugs reported, and certainly none to do with memory
trashing that I can remember. I am aware of one current problem in the TCP
code, which affects incoming data not all being received, but this is not
memory related.

As for the current status of Marinetti, as I've stated on the public record
previous, I no longer have a stable IIgs to use. Everything IIgs, I do with
Bernie.

Now, in Australia, we pay for every phone call we make, and cable is still
outside the budgets of home users (users outside the U.S. pay and subsidize
ALL Internet connections going into and out of the U.S., and service
providers lump that cost onto the cost of our connections. You're basically
getting a free ride, paid for by the rest of us. :-)

So, I'm not willing to test and debug Marinetti using PPP or SLIP, because
of the costs, and the time it takes to make a connection. I will use MacIP,
which works fine on the IIgs, but not on Bernie, because it doesn't support
AppleTalk.\

When an emulator becomes available that supports AppleTalk, or provides a
facility for Marinetti to be permanently connected to a network, then I
will upgrade Marinetti.

If you call this "not planning to work on it anymore", then that's your
analysis of the situation. I still intend to work on the code if I'm able
to find a satisfactory networking solution.

Regards,
 Richard

(RICHARD_B, 31652, GO COM A2)

>>>>>
"""""
> "(users outside the U.S. pay and subsidize ALL Internet connections going
> into and out of the U.S., and service providers lump that cost onto the
> cost of our connections. You're basically getting a free ride, paid for
> by the rest of us. :-)"

That doesn't make any sense to me. It's probably the way you phrased it,
can you explain it a bit more clearly?

Gary R. Utter

(UTTER, 31657, GO COM A2)

>>>>>
"""""
> That doesn't make any sense to me.

Richard was complaining that for Australia to access the Internet,
companies there have to pay lots and lots of money for use of the
underwater cables. The US doesn't have to pay these costs since they are
mainly selling the "service" to Australia. So for America to access a
server in Australia, we don't pay for the connection. Australia is footing
the entire bill for them to access to the Internet and for others to access
them. This is what Richard refers to the "free ride."

As an employee of the Internet business for most of the last five years.
this is a standard business model. I have a 24x7 server at my home. I pay
for a dedicated line to this box. This gives me access to the outside
world, but I also pay for the outside world to access my system (for the
publicly available services--i.e. web site). Is this fair? As far as the
business model goes, it has worked so far.

The way I see it, if an Australia company comes along and lays underwater
cables to Asia, Europe, Africa, and the Americas, then they can charge for
this access and make the money that they are spending. Does an Australian
company have the capital to do this? Can they be priced competitively? Can
they offer the same kind of services by the current companies in the
market?

There is a lot of "public money" that the US spends to further Internet
development. This public money comes from not just the government, but
quite a bit from stocks and bonds as well. Can Australia spend what the US
spends (stocks, company research and development, government, bank loans,
etc.) to be an Internet economic power?

I don't know enough about Australia to answer any of these kinds of
questions I brought up.

If somebody creates the next "Netscape," the entire business model can
radically change. There hasn't been any show stoppers since 1994-1995 when
Netscape changed the way we use computers.

Geoff

(SISGEOFF, 31662, GO COM A2)

>>>>>
"""""
> "Richard was complaining that for Australia to access the Internet,
> companies there have to pay lots and lots of money for use of the
> underwater cables. The US doesn't have to pay these costs since they are
> mainly selling the "service" to Australia."

Well, that makes perfectly good sense to me (and it would make perfectly
good sense if it was Australia that had laid the cables and the US that was
paying.)

Complaining about sounds like complaining about gravity. (I.e. you can
complain all you want but it will still suck. :)

Gary R. Utter

(UTTER, 31664, GO COM A2)

>>>>>
"""""
Oh, but gravity is a constant, monopolies are not. :-) But your right, we
just grin and bear it.

As an indication of costs, we have around a 50% Internet usage in the
Australian population, plus we're very technologically advanced, with a
deregulated Telco market. However, we cannot get DSL or ADSL yet, because
the Telcos are using delay tactics. A ca cable modem costs around AUD$100
(US$163) plus traffic/bandwidth usage costs of around 10c per meg over 100
meg per month, plus limited upload capacity. Call that competitive? The
Telcos that could quite easily provide this cheaply, are again stalling.

People like myself get frustrated when we see how easy and cheap it is to
go cable or (A)DSL in the U.S., yet can't do anything about it, unless I
sell my house.

Regards,
  Richard

(RICHARD_B, 31717, GO COM A2)

>>>>>
"""""
> "(users outside the U.S. pay and subsidize ALL Internet connections going
> into and out of the U.S., and service providers lump that cost onto the
> cost of our connections. You're basically getting a free ride, paid for
> by the rest of us. :-)"

Gary, I was pleased to see the smiley at the end of this comment! Back
after a long absence, I can tell you that in Germany now both local and
international long distance have become incredibly cheap since deregulation
and de-monopolization have occurred. Sometimes it is hard to explain the
disparity of prices in the two directions for a particular connection.

Jim

(PEACECHURCH, 31675, GO COM A2)

>>>>>
"""""
>>"Gary, I was pleased to see the smiley at the end of this comment!"

But Jim, that wasn't from ME, that was the quote...

It's not up to me to justify the business model used by people who pretty
much have a monopoly on their product. However, if I were going to be
SERIOUS about it, I would point out that, while it may seem that US
residents get a "free ride", it is none of our doing.

The cable owners set up their fee structure to achieve the maximum profit
consistent with maintaining their business. That is, they do NOT charge all
the market will bear, they charge as much as they can without making it
economically feasible for someone to compete with them. If they raise their
rates TOO high, someone else will lay a cable and sell access more cheaply.

I am confident that THEY believe that a significant increase in costs to US
customers will result in unwelcome competition. I don't really think it's a
case of preferential treatment, it's purely a case of marketing the product
for maximum profit.

Gary R. Utter

(UTTER, 31684, GO COM A2)

>>>>>
"""""
> "People like myself get frustrated when we see how easy and cheap it is
> to go cable or (A)DSL in the U.S...."

Don't be deceived. It might SEEM easy to get cable or DSL service in the
US, but it really isn't.

In those (relatively few) markets where cable modems are being tested, it's
cake. Outside those markets, it's simply impossible. You have to be wired
for cable, and it has to be the RIGHT cable company.

My father in law can have cable anytime he wants it. The cost to install it
will be $7800, because the nearest pole with cable on it is nearly 10 miles
away. But if he DOES get cable, he can't get a cable modem, because his
cable system doesn't have it.

He can't get DSL either, because he is on a party line (if you are not
familiar with the term, he shares his phone line with several neighbors).
He CAN get private phone service for only about a $1200 installation
charge, but his phone company doesn't offer DSL either....

He lives less than 10 miles from a city of 30-40K people, with two
universities, several major highways and an Interstate.

Now I'm not saying that your phone companies aren't screwing you, because
they are. But cable and DSL aren't as easy to get, or as widely available,
as they seem.

Gary R. Utter

(UTTER, 31721, GO COM A2)

>>>>>
"""""
You don't have to be out in the country either. Here in Chicago, I've had
friends try for DSL and have been told that their neighborhood phone switch
isn't DSL compatible. If they had lived one block over, however...

I've got cable. AT&T now owns the system that serves this market (no choice
here, and putting a DISH sat. dish on an apartment balcony isn't all that
easy), and guess who's not offering cable modems yet? Choices come down to
what's available, which isn't always a lot.

later.........Howard

(HKATZ, 31730, GO COM A2)

>>>>>
"""""
My house cant get dsl on one system (the cheap one) but now supposably can
on COVAD, which is $40 per month plus $200 setup. I'm still deciding if I
want to do that or not. I got the answer that they will give me 5 static
ips. We have 3 pcs at home so that should be ok. Maybe I'll finally try to
get my gs an ip, but no I'm probably going to find other things more
important to do. ;-)

At work the SWBEll dsl has pretty much stopped working, no one can exactly
tell us why. But they stopped allowing us to have multiple ip's on line. We
have put up a router that is supposed to fix that but still have not gotten
our dsl up.  This is after we dropped three phone lines so few people can
be on line at the same time anymore.

Bruce

(BRB, 31732, GO COM A2)

>>>>>
"""""
EXACTLY! I live in Melbourne, FL, and in town we have Grumman, Rockwell,
and Harris, but do we have DSL? Nope. Do we have cable? Only if you count
Time-Warner (and no thanks, I'd rather not be AOL-ized today). Bellsouth
has had DSL in the state for 3 years, and they can't seem to get it in a
city where technical talent oozes out of the sidewalk. :)

---Tarage
Email: {<mailto:tarage@bellsouth.net> tarage@bellsouth.net}

(TARAGE, 31737, GO COM A2)

>>>>>
"""""
If you want to check the latest and greatest DSL service in your area
checkout DSLREPORTS a great web site that lists all the DSL providers. I
discovered DSL availability in my area from two different companies and I
signed up with the cheapest. That was a month ago, today the new phone line
is being installed in my house, and hopefully I will be DSled next week.

The day after I signed up for DSL my local cable company offered Cable
Modem service. I called them up and they offered a 60 day, money back,
free, no obligation, guaranteed,(did I mention free) tryout period. The
third time I accepted their offer, a cable modem arrived at my door and it
has been working fine now for two weeks.

I plan on terminating the cable modem within the 60 days if the DSL service
is close to the speed of the cable modem. When both systems are up and
running I will post some numbers. Stay Tuned!

 David Ciotti BinaryBear@Mac.Com
  Automatic reply by ProTERM Message Manager (PTMM) 2.5
 - The integrated information solution -

(BINARY_BEAR, 31750, GO COM A2)

>>>>>
"""""
> A cable modem costs around AUD$100 (US$163) plus traffic/bandwidth usage
> costs of around 10c per meg over 100 meg per month, plus limited upload
> capacity. Call that competitive?

Actually, Richard, it has got better! Telstra's BigPond cable 'Freedom'
plan gives unlimited usage (no Mb limits) for Aus$65.95 per month (around
US$40 per month). Installation (until June 30 anyway) is A$99. The only
catch is that the speed is capped to 400K bits/sec download rate, and
you're not supposed to connect a LAN.

The cost is not so bad when you factor in a second phone line, cost of
calls, cost of an ISP, etc., all with 24 hour connection and still plenty
faster than a modem.

Peter Watson
-- Write to MSDOS disks on the Apple IIgs?
-- Impossible! ;-)

(PETERWATSON, 31751, GO COM A2)

>>>>>
"""""

> People like myself get frustrated when we see how easy and cheap it is to
> go cable or (A)DSL in the U.S., yet can't do anything about it, unless I
> sell my house.

And that would be pointless because you would have to use the cable in a
refrigerator carton in the alley. Heh..

Frustrating? You bet. It's even as bad here in some ways. What Gary said
would seem to be overall the case but in some places it's not. You have
bonehead TelCo execs in their cushy board rooms 'wondering' why ISDN was
not selling. They just don't get it. It was like they never wanted to sell
it in the first place. Japan has ISDN on pay phones (a different standard)
and they nickel and byte you to death on it here.

Cable (when the infrastructure is working correctly and properly
administered) as with the case of any providers network is far more
advanced than the TelCo's xDSL on in some cases 50+ year old copper
infrastructure. the TelCo has to resort to misleading and outright lies in
advertising and claiming things that I have never had happen in the 2+
years of using cable service. I got on this system the 1st day it was
offered in the area. Since then I have probably had a collective 2 hours of
down time. Sure, there were a few quarks but never bandwidth crunch. It
would go against them luring all the customers to sign up and watch the
service degrade. I can't say the same about xDSL, Bell be Damned, they
managed to screw up a perfectly working line at least twice a month in
three locations I have service at. Where as the cable service, I've seen it
*noticeably* improve. From backbone based servers, downloads tend to flow
at least 40K/sec, a high peak that I get daily would be 225K/sec and as
much as 450K/sec is not uncommon. When the system first started here I
could barely max anything above 100K/sec or so.

Prices for cable service in the US are between $35 and $49/mo n average
including equipment. That same service for a business is $250 to $600/mo
depending on how many IP#'s ('seats') you get. xDSL is worse. In areas
where cable service is available your insane if you get DSL. It's an
average of $10 higher a month at least.

This is all new to the US too from a lot of viewpoints. The infrastructure
costs were paid for by us in much the same ways as overseas users are
paying for it except that a lot of that already happened years and years
ago. The RFC for FTP is dated 1967 I believe. The 'internet' is not 'new'.
:-)

It's making the world a different place.

Tony

(T_DIAZ, 31778, GO COM A2)

>>>>>
"""""
> I have to agree with Gary here. I live in a small city of 25,000 people.
> We have cable but cable modems aren't available.

But Moscow, Kansas has cable modem and DSL. Lop off three zero's and your
closer to the population there.

But Kirk also says that the public utilities are also publicly owned and
they get what they want because of that it seems. :) I'm still in shock.
San Diego county is around #2 on the index of most wired places and it took
this long for services to be available, yet we too still have people on
party lines and they quoted me a cost of $27,000 (yes, thousand) to get
cable service at our business location that is just a stones throw from the
street that the cable lines run overhead on the way to where there are
houses that have service.

IOW: They did not want to do the job, so I have to settle for crappy DSL.

Tony

(T_DIAZ, 31779, GO COM A2)

>>>>>
"""""
> Telstra's BigPond cable 'Freedom' plan gives unlimited usage (no Mb
> limits) for Aus$65.95 per month (around US$40 per month).Installation
> (until June 30 anyway) is A$99.The only catch is that the speed is capped
> to 400K bits/sec and you're not supposed to connect a LAN.

Hide the hubs, hide the routers, call the Cable Company! Put the iMac on
the kitchen table and say " We don't know what were doing, we just got
this". That is the kinda of users they like best. 400K cap? Better than
dialup 56K.

Not supposed to hook to a LAN .. Baaaah.

Tony
Heh.. ;-)

(T_DIAZ, 31780, GO COM A2)

>>>>>
"""""
DSL is still pretty new and scarce in the U.S. They are pushing it pretty
hard, but it still has serious distance limitations. USWEST (soon to be
Qwest) is starting to deploy VDSL (Very high bandwidth) in it's territory,
but it will take years to make a dent. It will solve the distance problem,
however, since it will require remote units all over the place to achieve
reasonable coverage.

 Carl Knoblock - Telephone Tech - Sun 25 Jun 00 9:13:41 pm
 cknoblo@home.com - Via Spectrum v2.3 & Crock O' Gold v3.2
 Y][Kfest, July 26-30, 2000 - 31 days till Y][Kfest
 Using Marinetti 2.0.1 - Thank you, Richard.

(CKNOBLO, 31789, GO COM A2)

>>>>>
"""""
In Lincoln, Nebraska however we are still waiting for cable modems. We do
have DSL service, but only if you live in the "zone" If you do then you
also get to pay $37.95/month for the line, $19.95/month for the ISP, $330
for the Router, $100 for the install.

In other words. It is pricey.

 Dain Neater.... - Thu 22 Jun 2000 1:11:39 pm
 Message delivered by Spectrum 2.3 via Marinetti 2.0.1
 and rushed to you by Crock O' Gold 3.2!
 Bernie II the Rescue 2.6

(STILLHAVEIT, 31793, GO COM A2)

>>>>>
"""""
I also pay CAD$40/month for cable modem service in Halifax, Nova Scotia,
and got in on a free installation/free month deal as well. Out here, that's
a steal, as a second phone line runs close to $30/month, and then one would
still have to pay for an ISP.

I believe it was $50 or even $60/month when first available, but as the
main telephone company started offering ADSL for $45-65/month ($45 if you
also used them for long-distance), the cable company had to drop their
rates.

Rates are still pretty variable and availability spotty in Canada, but the
smaller provinces out in the Maritimes have a jump on much of the rest of
the country because it didn't take very long to rewire everything.

-- Michael

(SAR, 31832, GO COM A2)
[EOA]




[GVO]
Y][K Fest Registration Info... meet old friends... meet new A2 friends...
"""""""""""""""""""""""""""
 ______      _____
(      )   (      )     ____________________________________________
 |     |  /     /      (        ____________________________2000____)
 |     | /     /        |      |
 |     |/     /         |      |                         II Infinitum!!
 |           /          |      |______
 |     |\     \         |      _______) __________    ________   ________
 |     | \     \        |      |       (     _____)  (     ___) (__    __)
 |     |  \     \       |      |        |   |__       \    \       |   |
 |     |   \     \      |      |        |    __)       \    \      |   |
 |     |    \      \    |      |        |   |_____   ___\    \     |   |
(______)    (________) (_______)       (__________) (_________)    |___|


Help usher in the 21st century with the Apple II!!

 When: July 26-30, 2000
 Where: Avila College, Kansas City, Missouri

+++

The most important Apple II event of the year, Y ][ KFest (KFest 2000), is
on our calendar again, and it's never too early to make sure it has a place
on your calendar, too.

Better yet, KFest is back with the same great prices as last year!

Check out these rates, which include room and meals from Wednesday evening
(dinner) on July 26, through Sunday morning (breakfast) on July 30.
(Saturday evening dinner not included. That's KFesters' Night Out On The
Town!)

+++ Early Bird rates (good if you register BEFORE April 15) +++

 Double room: $225
 Single room: $275
 Spouse rate (bring the spouse or son or daughter): $175
 Registration only (no dorm room or meals): $175

+++ Regular Attendee rates (if you register AFTER April 15) +++

 Double room: $275
 Single room: $325
 Spouse rate (bring the spouse or son or daughter): $225
 Registration only (no dorm room or meals): $225

Those cool KFest "soft-wear" T-shirts will also be available again this
year for $15, but ONLY if you order in advance. (See registration form
below.)

+++ Special Early Arrivals rate +++

Like last year, Y ][ KFest will start early for those who'd like to arrive
a little sooner. Avila dorms will be available for occupancy on Tuesday
night for a small extra fee. No formal activities will be planned, although
the day may include the annual trek to KC Masterpiece Restaurant for some
of that world-famous Kansas City barbecue!

The rate for early arrivals (Tuesday night dorm room only):

 Double room: $25
 Single room: $33

For attendees planning to arrive at the normal time on Wednesday, check-in
will be from 1-4 pm. Check-out will be from 11 am-1 pm on Sunday.

Current plans call for formal Y ][ KFest sessions to begin with dinner in
the Avila cafeteria on Wednesday evening (time to be announced), followed
by the traditional opening event, the Keynote Address. We've got some great
plans again for that opening night activity. Stay tuned!!

Computer sessions will be conducted on Thursday and Friday. Software and
hardware demos are scheduled for Saturday morning, with a vendor fair
slated for Saturday afternoon.

Reminder: Meals included in the registration price are Wednesday dinner
through Sunday breakfast, with the exception of Saturday dinner.

On Saturday night, attendees can dine on their own at one of the many fine
restaurants near the Avila campus, or join groups of KFesters at Jess &
Jim's Steak House or other local favorites.

All children under 18 years must be accompanied by a parent or legal
guardian.

 ***

Y ][ KFest this year is again being sponsored by InTrec Software, Inc.,
makers of ProTERM telecommunications software for the Apple II and
Macintosh.

If you have questions about Y ][ KFest, or wish to make suggestions, you
can find answers via the Internet. Just send an email message to:

kfest-help@kfest.org

 ... or visit the KFest World Wide Web page at:

http://www.kfest.org

If you're thinking about attending Y ][ KFest, please join the KFest
Internet e-mail chat:

To subscribe to the KFest Information Mailing List, send email to
majordomo@kfest.org. In the BODY of the message, place the following text:

                subscribe kfest

You will receive a confirmation e-mail. In order to be signed up for the
list, you will have to respond to this confirmation as the instructions
dictate. You will then be able send and read messages on the mailing list.

 ---[ The Form ]------------[ Cut Here ]----------[ Print Clearly ]---

Y ][ KFest Registration Form

View and print this document using 9-point Monaco font (ProTERM default) or
any other monospaced font such as Courier, CoPilot or Spectrum.

Registering for Y ][ KFest

  <> By phone:
      - Call the InTrec sales office: 602/992-5515
      - Be prepared to give the information requested in the
         KFest Registration Form below.
  <> Fax or email KFest Registration Form using a credit card number:
      - Complete the form below and send the KFest Registration Form.
         Email: <kfest@intrec.com> (NOTE: email is not secure.)
           Fax: 602/992-0232

  <> By postal mail: Credit card, check, Purchase Order or money order:
      - Print and fill out the KFest Registration Form.
      - Mail the form with the payment to:
         InTrec Software, Inc.
         Attn: KFest Registration
         3035 E Topaz Cir
         Phoenix, Az 85028-4423

 Checks and money orders must be on a USA bank and USA compatible funds.

 Registration Cost Check Applicable
 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 Early Bird rates (before April 15)

 Double $225 [ ]
 Single $275 [ ]
 Spouse only $175 [ ]
 Off campus $175 [ ]

Regular rates (after April 15 and at the door)

 Double room $275 [ ]
 Single room $325 [ ]
 Spouse only $225 [ ]
 Conference only $225 [ ]

Early Arrival rates

 Double $25 [ ]
 Single $33 [ ]

 T-Shirts $15 ea

 May we send your registration confirmation via e-mail? [ ]Yes [ ]No

If NO, how can we contact you for confirmation?:__________________________

__________________________________________________________________________

Roommate preference: _____________________________________________________

 Prefer a smoker/non-smoker. Check one: [ ] Smoke [ ] Non-smoke

 KFest Softwear: Order a memorable collectible Y ][ KFest T-Shirt? $15 ea
 Quantity: [ ] [ ] [ ]  [ ]  [ ]   [ ]
     Size: SML MED LRG XLRG 2XLRG 3XLRG

 Today's Date: ________/_________/_________

  1- Registration fee (see above dates & fees) ......... ______________

  2- Registration fee for spouse if applicable ......... ______________

  3- T-Shirts Quantity [ ] @ $15.00 ea) ................ ______________

  4- Sub-total of lines 1-3: ........................... ______________

  5- Arizona residents only add .07% tax: .............. ______________

  6- Total cost (total of lines 4-5): .................. ______________

  Discover, Visa, Mastercard or American Express accepted.
  Checks & money orders must be payable to InTrec Software, and must
  be in US dollars from a US bank.

  _______________________________ _____________________________________
  First Name Last Name

  _____________________________________________________________________
  Organization (if applicable to Y ][ KFest)

  _____________________________________________________________________
  Shipping Address

  _____________________________________________________________________
  City

  _______________________________________________ _____________________
  State/Province Zip+4 or Postal Code

  _______/_______________________ _______/_____________________________
  Day Phone Eve Phone

  [____________________________________________________________________
  Internet Mail Address

  [ ] [ / ]
  Credit Card Number (Mastercard-Visa-Discovery-Amex) Expiration Date

  _____________________________________________________________________
  Name on Card (please print clearly)

  _____________________________________________________________________
  Authorized Signature (If printed, and mailed or faxed.)

  If you feel that using a credit card number via email may not be secure,
consider mailing via postal service, fax, or call voice to give the card
number.

 Sponsored by:

  InTrec Software, Inc.
  3035 E Topaz Circle
  Phoenix, AZ 85028-4423
  Voc:602/992-1345
  Fax:602/992-0232
  <kfest@intrec.com>
  <http://www.kfest.org>

  ---[ End of Form ]-----------[ Cut Here ]---------[ Print Clearly ]---

(CINDYADAMS, 27387, GO COM A2)





[EOA]
[A2P]------------------------------
                   A2Pro_DUCTIVITY |
-----------------------------------
DISTILLATIONS from Delphi A2PRO
"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""
by Lyle Syverson <lyle@foxvalley.net>

[ENT]
Editor's Note:
This month I was not able to obtain the necessary permissions to include
any of the message threads from A2P in a coherent manner.  Sorry.
[EOA]





[INN]------------------------------
                     EXTRA INNINGS |
-----------------------------------
About The Lamp!   The Lamp! is published on the fifteenth of every month in
"""""""""""""""   the Database of the II Scribe Forum on the Delphi online
service (GO CUS 11).

This publication produced entirely with real or emulated Apple II computers
using Appleworks 5.1 and Hermes.  Apple II Forever!

     * The Lamp! is (c) copyright 2000 by Ryan M. Suenaga, M.S.W.  All
       rights reserved.

     * To reach The Lamp! on Internet email send mail to
       thelamp@sheppyware.net

     * Back issues of The Lamp! are available in the II Scribe Forum on
       Delphi as well as The Lamp! Home Page,
       http://lamp.sheppyware.net.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Opinions expressed herein are those of  the individual authors, and do  not
necessarily  represent  the  opinions   of  the  Delphi  Online   Services,
Syndicomm, Inc.,  Ryan M. Suenaga, or Lyle Syverson.   Forum  messages  are
reprinted verbatim and  are included  in this  publication with  permission
from  the  individual  authors.   Delphi Online Services,  Syndicomm, Inc.,
Ryan M.  Suenaga,  and Lyle Syverson  do  not  guarantee  the  accuracy  or
suitability of any  information included herein.  We reserve  the  right to
edit all letters and copy.

Material published  in  this  edition  may not  be  reprinted  without  the
expressed  written consent  of the  publisher.   Registered  computer  user
groups, not  for profit  publications ,  and other  interested parties  may
write the publisher to apply for permission to reprint any or all material.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<



[EOF]


